Re: Gwin: Richard> Isham> John> Wm.> Wm.S.>
Posted by: John Gwin (ID *****6316) Date: August 14, 2002 at 21:25:48
In Reply to: Re: Gwin: Richard> Isham> John> Wm.> Wm.S.> by Frankie Cramer 592 of 594

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Wow. I'm getting excited reading this, Frankie. We may indeed have related families! Let's go crazy and theorize here for a minute.
First my background:

Allegedly my ggggg-grandpa was Richard Gwin, b. ca. 1748 in Jamestown, VA, who married ca. 1773 in Jamestown to Sarah Chesley, who was born ca. 1755 in Jamestown. Their son Isham moved into what's now eastern Tennessee where some if not all of his children were born, one of whom was my ggg-grandpa John Gwin, b. 1792 (whose 9 children were Isom, Mary, Thomas, William, Sarah, MaryAnn, Martha, Chesley, and Louisa) and who is buried in Wilsonville, AL (I have a photo of his tombstone).
All this and much more is on my website at http://www.zianet.com/jmcdgwin/gwinrichard.htm if you haven't seen it already.

OK, here's what you wrote:

We have some names in common, and maybe we have a related family. My gggg-grandfather was Thomas Gwin b. 1764 VA, married Elizabeth Littleton and had thirteen children. The first son was named Richard, another son Chesley. Thomas came to first Fairfield Co. SC, later moving to York Co, SC where he had a large farm. Thomas migrated to SC with his mother Elizabeth whose maiden name may have been Dove, a brother John and we think another brother Isom also came with them. We are not sure if Isom did indeed live at anytime in SC. I do not know where in VA the family was originally, or if they came from another state to VA. Supposedly Thomas's father died in 1776 in VA but that is only a guess. We do not have even his name. Gwin at this time may have been spelled Guinn. SC census records have it both ways for Thomas beginning with the 1790 census. Hope to hear from you.
Frankie Cramer jcflcramer@msn.com

To which you answered:

Hi John,
We have emailed before about our common names, and the last time you even suggested a scenario of possibilities for our two Gwin families being the same. My Thomas born in VA 1764, had two brothers Isom and John on neither of whom I have much information. There may have been other children that I don't know about. Now, Richard and Sarah could not be my Thomas Gwin/Guinn's parents, unless their birth dates are wrong, and also my family notes tell me that Thomas's father died 1776 in VA. Now having said all that, Thomas named first son Richard and another one Chesley, so I still feel that there is a connection. Or maybe these names were not that uncommon, although Chesley would certainly imply a family name. I do wonder if we have the same family just don't know how to make it fit. I have kept your email suggesting that Richard might be in factİan older brother to Thomas. I can't get that to work either, but I will give this all another look. Talk to you later, and thanks for keeping in touch.
Frankie--25 Mar 2003
 
Now back to my theory:
My Richard was b. in VA ca. 1748. Your Thomas was b. in VA in 1764.

I theorize that my Richard was the oldest brother of your Thomas.

Here is a suggested timeline for this theory, so let's insert the names and dates (known information will be in bold red):

GENERATION ONE:  Let's speculate that a (RICHARD SR.) marries ELIZABETH (DOVE)
and has sons RICHARD (JR), JOHN, ISOM, and THOMAS.
YEAR

 

GENERATION
TWO

RICHARD
GWIN, JR.
(who marries
SARAH CHESLEY),
JOHN GWIN'S LINE


 
 
 

 


 
 
 

 


 
 
 
 

 

GENERATION
TWO

JOHN
GWIN

GENERATION
TWO

ISOM
GWIN

GENERATION
TWO

THOMAS
GWIN,
FRANKIE CRAMER'S LINE


 
 

 

 
   
GENERATION
THREE

ISHAM
GWIN II's





 

         
GENERATION
THREE

RICHARD
GWIN III





 

GENERATION
THREE

ISHAM
GWIN III





 

GENERATION
THREE

LITTLETON
GWIN
(see
Marsha White's
Littleton Gwin
page)

GENERATION
THREE

CHESLEY
GWIN





 

     
GENERATION
FOUR

JOHN
GWIN II's

           
       
GENERATION
FIVE

JOHN
GWIN II's
CHILDREN

1740 . . . . . . . . . . .
1741 . . . . . . . . . .
1742 . . . . . . . . . .
1743 . . . . . . . . . . .
1744 . . . . . . . . . . .
1745 . . . . . . . . . . .
1746 Everyone is living in Jamestown, James City Co., Virginia . . . . . . . . . .
1747 Richard's & Thomas' parents marry--names could have been, let's say, Richard Gwin, Sr., & Elizabeth Dove. . . . . . . . . . .
1748 Richard (Jr.) is born (first?) . . . . . . . . . .
1749 . . . . . . . . . . .
1750 . . . . . . . . . . .
1751 . . . . . . . . . . .
1752 . . . . . . . . . . .
1753 . . . . . . . . . . ..
1754 . . . . . . . . . . .
1755 Sarah Chesley is born; Richard is ca. 7 . . . . . . . . . .
1756 . . . . . . . . . . .
1757 . . . . . . . . . . .
1758 . . . . . . . . . . .
1759 Sometime, say in the 1750's, a brother John is born. . . . . . . . . . .
1760 .
1761 .
1762 .
1763 .
1764 Big brother Richard is 16, Sarah is 9 Thomas is born (last?)
1765 .
1766 .
1767 .
1768 .
1769 .
1770 .
1771 .
1772 .
1773 Richard, Jr., 25, & Sarah, 18, marry Thomas is 9
1774 Pa Richard, Jr., is 26, & Ma Sarah is 19 Isham II is born John is an uncle, age between 11 and 25. Namesake Isom is an uncle, age between 11 and 25. Uncle Thomas is 10
1775
1776 REVOLUTIONARY WAR! Richard's and Thomas' dad (Generation one: Richard Sr.?) dies/is killed.  Richard, Jr., is 27 Isham II is 2 Thomas is 12
1777
1778
1779
1780 After the war the families move south out of VA into the Carolinas.

Richard, Jr., 32, & Sarah, 25, move to NC

Isham II is 6 John moves with Mom John, and Thomas into SC. Isom possibly moves with Mom John, and Thomas into SC. Thomas, 16, moves with Mom and one or two brothers into SC.
1781
1782
1783
1784 Richard, Jr., 36, & Sarah, 29, celebrate11th anniversary Isham II is 10 Thomas, 20, marries Elizabeth Littleton
1785 Richard is 37, Sarah is 30 Isham II is 11 Thomas, 21, & Elizabeth have first son, Richard III  (named for older brother OR dad?).
They will have another son (DOB unk.) whom they will name Chesley.
Richard III is born
1786 Uncle Richard is 38, Aunt Sarah is 31 1st Cousin Isham II is 12 Thomas, 22, & Elizabeth  name (2nd?) son Isham III (for Thomas' nephew) Isham III is born
1787 Uncle Richard is 39, Aunt Sarah is 32 1st Cousin Isham II is 13 Thomas, 23, & Elizabeth name (3rd?) son Littleton Gwin Isham III is 1 Littleton is born.

[Marsha White has a Littleton Gwin born in 1809.  I'd guess that hers is either the son of this (Frankie's) Littleton or that they are the same person, with one or both of the dates of birth being incorrect.]

1788 Chesley is born (DOB unknown)
1789
1790 Where are Richard, Jr., 42, and Sarah, 35, in this census? Where is Isham II, 16, in this census? Where is John, ca. 27-41, in this census? Where is Isham, ca. 27-41, in this census? Thomas, 26, is in SC at census time Isham III is 4 Littleton is 3 Chesley is boy of unk. age-- perhaps 0-5.
1791 Richard is 43, Sarah is 36 Isham II, 17, marries (Miss Cleveland?)
1792 Grandpa Richard, Jr. is 44, Grandma Sarah is 37 Pa Isham II is 18 John II is born, probably in Sevier Co., western NC (will be east TN) Namesake John is a granduncle. Granduncle Thomas is 28 1st Cousin-once-removed Isham III is 6 1st Cousin-once-removed Littleton is 5
1793
1794
1795
1796 Tennessee STATEHOOD! Richard is ca. 48, Sarah is ca. 41 Isham II is ca. 22 John Gwin II is 4, probably living in Sevier Co.; Jane Walker is 2, probably living in Blount Co., TN Thomas is 32 Richard III is 11 Isham III is 10 Littleton is 9 Chesley is unk. age
1797
1798
1799
1800 Where are Richard, 52, and Sarah, 45, in this census? Where is Isham II, 26, in this census?  Must be in Sevier Co., TN, as he clearly is there in 1807 John II is 8, Jane is 4 Where is Thomas, 36, in this census? Richard III is 15 Where is Isham III, 14, in this census? Where is Littleton, 13, in this census? Where is Chesley, perhaps 10-15, in this census?
1810 Where are Richard, 62, and Sarah, 55, in this census? Where is Isham II, 36, in this census?  Must be in Sevier Co., TN John II is 18, Jane is 14 Where is Thomas, 46, in this census? Where is Richard III, 25, in this census? Where is Isham III, 24, in this census? Where is Littleton, 23, in this census? Where is Chesley, perhaps 20-25, in this census?
1812 WAR OF 1812! Richard is 64, Sarah is 57 Isham II is 38 John II, 20, marries Jane Walker, 16, in Blount Co, enlists in Jackson's army Thomas is 48 Richard III is 27 Isham III is 26 Littleton is 25
1815
1816 Pa John is ca. 20-23; Ma Jane is ca. 18-21 Thomas Gwin II, b. ca. 1814-16 (unk. if is firstborn or secondborn, based on 1830 census)

Mary Gwin, b. ca. 1814-16 (unk. if is firstborn or secondborn, based on 1830 census--will marry Drury Hampton Roark)

1817 Namesake Grandpa Isham II is 43 Pa John is 24 Ma Jane is ca. 20 Isom IV is b. 17 Mar 1817
(verified as thirdborn by his DOB and the 1830 census--will marry Mary Burdine Wilson)
Namesake Isom is a great-granduncle Isham III is 31
1818 Pa John is ca. 26 Ma Jane is ca. 22 Namesake Great-granduncle Thomas is 54
1820 Where are Richard, Jr., 72, and Sarah, 65, in this census? Where is Isham II, 46, in this census? John II, 28, and Jane, 24, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census. William Gwin, b. 18 Dec 1820 (will marry Roseanna Carlisle Jones Wilson) Where is Thomas, 56, in this census? Where is Richard III, 35, in this census? Where is Isham III, 34, in this census? Where is Littleton, 33, in this census? Where is Chesley, perhaps 30-35, in this census?
1826 Pa John is ca. 34 Ma Jane is ca. 30  Sarah Gwin, b. ca. 1826 (will marry Louis Basset)
1827 Pa John is ca. 35 Ma Jane is ca. 31 Ann Gwin, b. ca. 1827 (will marry Joseph Basset)
1828 Richard, Jr., is 80, and namesake Great-grandma Sarah Chesley Gwin is 73. Pa John is ca. 36 Ma Jane is ca. 32 Martha J. Gwin, b. ca.1828 (will marry Jesse Comelander)

Chesley R. Gwin, b. ca.1828 (will marry 1st Mary Frances "Fanny" E. Bell and 2nd the widow Paralee Blevins)

1830 Where are Richard, 82, and Sarah, 75, in this census? Where is Isham II, 56, in this census? John II, 38, and Jane, 34, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census.   Where is Thomas, 66, in this census? Where is Richard III, 45, in this census? Where is Isham III, 44, in this census? Where is Littleton, 43, in this census? Where is Chesley, perhaps 40-45, in this census?
1832 Louisa A. Gwin, b. ca.1832 (will marry William J. McKnight)
1840 Where are Richard, 92, and Sarah, 85, in this census? Where is Isham II, 66, in this census? John II, 48, and Jane, 44, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census. Where is Thomas, 76, in this census? Where is Richard III, 55, in this census? Where is Isham III, 54, in this census? Where is Littleton, 53, in this census? Where is Chesley, perhaps 50-55, in this census?
1850 Where are Richard, 102, and Sarah, 95, in this census? Where is Isham II, 76, in this census? John II, 58, and Jane, 54, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census. Where is Thomas, 86, in this census? Where is Richard III, 65, in this census? Where is Isham III, 64, in this census? Where is Littleton, 63, in this census? Where is Chesley, perhaps 60-65, in this census?
1860 CIVIL WAR! Where is Isham II, 86, in this census? John II, 68, and Jane, 64, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census. Where is Thomas, 96, in this census? Where is Richard III, 75, in this census? Where is Isham III, 74, in this census? Where is Littleton, 73, in this census? Where is Chesley, perhaps 70-75, in this census?
mid-
1860's
Jane, ca. 70, dies, is buried in Cahaba, AL; John II moves to Wilsonville with son William
1870 Where is Isham II, 96, in this census? John II, 78, is in Shelby Co., AL, in this census. Where is Thomas, 106, in this census? Where is Richard III, 85, in this census? Where is Isham III, 84, in this census? Where is Littleton, 83, in this census? Where is Chesley, perhaps 80-85, in this census?
1877 John II, 84, dies 7 Mar, is buried in Wilsonville, AL

2004------If above is correct, I, John M. Gwin, 56, am 6th cousin once removed to Frankie Cramer.