Wow. I'm getting excited reading this, Frankie. We may indeed have related
families! Let's go crazy and theorize here for a minute.
First my background:
Allegedly my ggggg-grandpa was Richard Gwin, b. ca. 1748 in Jamestown,
VA, who married ca. 1773 in Jamestown to Sarah Chesley, who was born ca.
1755 in Jamestown. Their son Isham moved into what's now eastern Tennessee
where some if not all of his children were born, one of whom was my ggg-grandpa
John Gwin, b. 1792 (whose 9 children were Isom, Mary, Thomas, William,
Sarah, MaryAnn, Martha, Chesley, and Louisa) and who is buried in Wilsonville,
AL (I have a photo of his tombstone).
All this and much more is on my website at http://www.zianet.com/jmcdgwin/gwinrichard.htm if you haven't seen it already.
OK, here's what you wrote:
We have some names in common, and maybe we have a related family. My gggg-grandfather was Thomas Gwin b. 1764 VA, married Elizabeth Littleton and had thirteen children. The first son was named Richard, another son Chesley. Thomas came to first Fairfield Co. SC, later moving to York Co, SC where he had a large farm. Thomas migrated to SC with his mother Elizabeth whose maiden name may have been Dove, a brother John and we think another brother Isom also came with them. We are not sure if Isom did indeed live at anytime in SC. I do not know where in VA the family was originally, or if they came from another state to VA. Supposedly Thomas's father died in 1776 in VA but that is only a guess. We do not have even his name. Gwin at this time may have been spelled Guinn. SC census records have it both ways for Thomas beginning with the 1790 census. Hope to hear from you.
Frankie Cramer email@example.com
To which you answered:Hi John,
We have emailed before about our common names, and the last time you even suggested a scenario of possibilities for our two Gwin families being the same. My Thomas born in VA 1764, had two brothers Isom and John on neither of whom I have much information. There may have been other children that I don't know about. Now, Richard and Sarah could not be my Thomas Gwin/Guinn's parents, unless their birth dates are wrong, and also my family notes tell me that Thomas's father died 1776 in VA. Now having said all that, Thomas named first son Richard and another one Chesley, so I still feel that there is a connection. Or maybe these names were not that uncommon, although Chesley would certainly imply a family name. I do wonder if we have the same family just don't know how to make it fit. I have kept your email suggesting that Richard might be in factİan older brother to Thomas. I can't get that to work either, but I will give this all another look. Talk to you later, and thanks for keeping in touch.
Frankie--25 Mar 2003
Now back to my theory:
and has sons RICHARD (JR), JOHN, ISOM, and THOMAS.
|1746||Everyone is living in Jamestown, James City Co., Virginia||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.|
|1747||Richard's & Thomas' parents marry--names could have been, let's say, Richard Gwin, Sr., & Elizabeth Dove.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.|
|1748||Richard (Jr.) is born (first?)||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.|
|1755||Sarah Chesley is born; Richard is ca. 7||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.|
|1759||Sometime, say in the 1750's, a brother John is born.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.||.|
|1764||Big brother Richard is 16, Sarah is 9||Thomas is born (last?)|
|1773||Richard, Jr., 25, & Sarah, 18, marry||Thomas is 9|
|1774||Pa Richard, Jr., is 26, & Ma Sarah is 19||Isham II is born||John is an uncle, age between 11 and 25.||Namesake Isom is an uncle, age between 11 and 25.||Uncle Thomas is 10|
|1776||REVOLUTIONARY WAR! Richard's and Thomas' dad (Generation one: Richard Sr.?) dies/is killed. Richard, Jr., is 27||Isham II is 2||Thomas is 12|
|1780||After the war the families move south out of VA into the Carolinas.
Richard, Jr., 32, & Sarah, 25, move to NC
|Isham II is 6||John moves with Mom John, and Thomas into SC.||Isom possibly moves with Mom John, and Thomas into SC.||Thomas, 16, moves with Mom and one or two brothers into SC.|
|1784||Richard, Jr., 36, & Sarah, 29, celebrate11th anniversary||Isham II is 10||Thomas, 20, marries Elizabeth Littleton|
|1785||Richard is 37, Sarah is 30||Isham II is 11||Thomas, 21, & Elizabeth have first son, Richard
III (named for older brother OR dad?).
They will have another son (DOB unk.) whom they will name Chesley.
|Richard III is born|
|1786||Uncle Richard is 38, Aunt Sarah is 31||1st Cousin Isham II is 12||Thomas, 22, & Elizabeth name (2nd?) son Isham III (for Thomas' nephew)||Isham III is born|
|1787||Uncle Richard is 39, Aunt Sarah is 32||1st Cousin Isham II is 13||Thomas, 23, & Elizabeth name (3rd?) son Littleton Gwin||Isham III is 1||Littleton is born.
[Marsha White has a Littleton Gwin born in 1809. I'd guess that hers is either the son of this (Frankie's) Littleton or that they are the same person, with one or both of the dates of birth being incorrect.]
|1788||Chesley is born (DOB unknown)|
|1790||Where are Richard, Jr., 42, and Sarah, 35, in this census?||Where is Isham II, 16, in this census?||Where is John, ca. 27-41, in this census?||Where is Isham, ca. 27-41, in this census?||Thomas, 26, is in SC at census time||Isham III is 4||Littleton is 3||Chesley is boy of unk. age-- perhaps 0-5.|
|1791||Richard is 43, Sarah is 36||Isham II, 17, marries (Miss Cleveland?)|
|1792||Grandpa Richard, Jr. is 44, Grandma Sarah is 37||Pa Isham II is 18||John II is born, probably in Sevier Co., western NC (will be east TN)||Namesake John is a granduncle.||Granduncle Thomas is 28||1st Cousin-once-removed Isham III is 6||1st Cousin-once-removed Littleton is 5|
|1796||Tennessee STATEHOOD! Richard is ca. 48, Sarah is ca. 41||Isham II is ca. 22||John Gwin II is 4, probably living in Sevier Co.; Jane Walker is 2, probably living in Blount Co., TN||Thomas is 32||Richard III is 11||Isham III is 10||Littleton is 9||Chesley is unk. age|
|1800||Where are Richard, 52, and Sarah, 45, in this census?||Where is Isham II, 26, in this census? Must be in Sevier Co., TN, as he clearly is there in 1807||John II is 8, Jane is 4||Where is Thomas, 36, in this census?||Richard III is 15||Where is Isham III, 14, in this census?||Where is Littleton, 13, in this census?||Where is Chesley, perhaps 10-15, in this census?|
|1810||Where are Richard, 62, and Sarah, 55, in this census?||Where is Isham II, 36, in this census? Must be in Sevier Co., TN||John II is 18, Jane is 14||Where is Thomas, 46, in this census?||Where is Richard III, 25, in this census?||Where is Isham III, 24, in this census?||Where is Littleton, 23, in this census?||Where is Chesley, perhaps 20-25, in this census?|
|1812||WAR OF 1812! Richard is 64, Sarah is 57||Isham II is 38||John II, 20, marries Jane Walker, 16, in Blount Co, enlists in Jackson's army||Thomas is 48||Richard III is 27||Isham III is 26||Littleton is 25|
|1816||Pa John is ca. 20-23; Ma Jane is ca. 18-21||Thomas Gwin II, b. ca. 1814-16 (unk.
if is firstborn or secondborn, based on 1830 census)
Mary Gwin, b. ca. 1814-16 (unk. if is firstborn or secondborn, based on 1830 census--will marry Drury Hampton Roark)
|1817||Namesake Grandpa Isham II is 43||Pa John is 24 Ma Jane is ca. 20||Isom IV is b. 17 Mar 1817
(verified as thirdborn by his DOB and the 1830 census--will marry Mary Burdine Wilson)
|Namesake Isom is a great-granduncle||Isham III is 31|
|1818||Pa John is ca. 26 Ma Jane is ca. 22||Namesake Great-granduncle Thomas is 54|
|1820||Where are Richard, Jr., 72, and Sarah, 65, in this census?||Where is Isham II, 46, in this census?||John II, 28, and Jane, 24, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census.||William Gwin, b. 18 Dec 1820 (will marry Roseanna Carlisle Jones Wilson)||Where is Thomas, 56, in this census?||Where is Richard III, 35, in this census?||Where is Isham III, 34, in this census?||Where is Littleton, 33, in this census?||Where is Chesley, perhaps 30-35, in this census?|
|1826||Pa John is ca. 34 Ma Jane is ca. 30||Sarah Gwin, b. ca. 1826 (will marry Louis Basset)|
|1827||Pa John is ca. 35 Ma Jane is ca. 31||Ann Gwin, b. ca. 1827 (will marry Joseph Basset)|
|1828||Richard, Jr., is 80, and namesake Great-grandma Sarah Chesley Gwin is 73.||Pa John is ca. 36 Ma Jane is ca. 32||Martha J. Gwin, b. ca.1828 (will marry
Chesley R. Gwin, b. ca.1828 (will marry 1st Mary Frances "Fanny" E. Bell and 2nd the widow Paralee Blevins)
|1830||Where are Richard, 82, and Sarah, 75, in this census?||Where is Isham II, 56, in this census?||John II, 38, and Jane, 34, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census.||Where is Thomas, 66, in this census?||Where is Richard III, 45, in this census?||Where is Isham III, 44, in this census?||Where is Littleton, 43, in this census?||Where is Chesley, perhaps 40-45, in this census?|
|1832||Louisa A. Gwin, b. ca.1832 (will marry William J. McKnight)|
|1840||Where are Richard, 92, and Sarah, 85, in this census?||Where is Isham II, 66, in this census?||John II, 48, and Jane, 44, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census.||Where is Thomas, 76, in this census?||Where is Richard III, 55, in this census?||Where is Isham III, 54, in this census?||Where is Littleton, 53, in this census?||Where is Chesley, perhaps 50-55, in this census?|
|1850||Where are Richard, 102, and Sarah, 95, in this census?||Where is Isham II, 76, in this census?||John II, 58, and Jane, 54, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census.||Where is Thomas, 86, in this census?||Where is Richard III, 65, in this census?||Where is Isham III, 64, in this census?||Where is Littleton, 63, in this census?||Where is Chesley, perhaps 60-65, in this census?|
|1860||CIVIL WAR!||Where is Isham II, 86, in this census?||John II, 68, and Jane, 64, are in Dallas Co., AL, in this census.||Where is Thomas, 96, in this census?||Where is Richard III, 75, in this census?||Where is Isham III, 74, in this census?||Where is Littleton, 73, in this census?||Where is Chesley, perhaps 70-75, in this census?|
|Jane, ca. 70, dies, is buried in Cahaba, AL; John II moves to Wilsonville with son William|
|1870||Where is Isham II, 96, in this census?||John II, 78, is in Shelby Co., AL, in this census.||Where is Thomas, 106, in this census?||Where is Richard III, 85, in this census?||Where is Isham III, 84, in this census?||Where is Littleton, 83, in this census?||Where is Chesley, perhaps 80-85, in this census?|
|1877||John II, 84, dies 7 Mar, is buried in Wilsonville, AL|
2004------If above is correct, I, John M. Gwin, 56, am 6th cousin once removed to Frankie Cramer.